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>> good evening from the field house at washington university in st. louis. i'm jim hrer of the newshour on pbs, and i welcome you to this third and final campaign 2000 debate between the democratic candidate for president, vice president al gore, and the republican candidate, governor george w. bush of texas. let's welcome the candidates now. [applause]
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>> how you doing? >> governor. >> how are you all? >> before proceeding tonight we would like to observe a moment of silence in memory of governor mel carnahan of missouri, who along with his son and his former chief of staff, died in a private plane crash last night near st. louis.
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a reminder, as we continue now, that these debates are sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. the formats and the rules were woed out by the mmission and the two campaigns. tonight's questions will be asked by st. louis area voters who were identified as being uncommitted by the gallup organization. earlier today each of them wrote a question on a small card like this. those cards were collected and then given to me this afternoon. my job, under the rules of the evening, was to decide the order the questions will be asked and to call on the questioners accordingly. i also have the option of asking follow-ups which -- in order to get to more of the panel's questions. for the record, i plan to do sparingly and mostly for clarifications. the audience participants are bound by the following rule. they shall not ask follow-up
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questions or otherwise participate in the extended discussion. and the questioner's microphone will be turned off after he or she completes asking the question. those are the rules. as in winston-salem last week, no sine answer or response from a candidate can exceed two minutes. there is an audience here in the hall and they have promised to remain absolutely quiet, as did their predecessors this year in boston, danville, and winston- salem. before we begin, abefore we begn fr last week's debate. i was wrong when i said vice president gore's campaign commercials had called governor sh a bumbler. that specific charge was made in a press statement by gore campaign spokesman mark fabiani, not in a tv guide. >> i'm glad you clarified that.
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>> now, let's go to the first question. of over the 130 questions we received from this panel, we will begin with one of the 19 on health issues, and it goes to you, mr. vice president, and it will be asked by james hankins. mr. hankins? >> how do you feel about hmos and insurance companies making the critical decisions that affect people's lives instead of the medical professionals, and why are the hmos and insurance companies not held accountable for their decisions? >> mr. hankins, i don't feel good about it, and i think we ought to have a patient's bill of rights to take the medical decisions away from the hmos and give them back to the doctors and nurses. i want to come back and tell you why, but if you will forgive me, i would like to say something right now at the beginning of this debate following on the moment of silence for mel carnahan and randy carnahan and chris siffd. tipper and i were good friends with mel and randy, and i know that all of us here want to
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extend our sympathy and condolences to jean and the family and to the sifford family. and i would just like to say that this debate in a way is a living tributeo mel carnahan because he loved t vigorou discussion of ideas in our democracy. he was a fantastic governor of missou. this state became one of the top five in the nation for health care coverage for children under his leadership. one of the best in advancing all kinds of benefits for children to grow up healthy and strong. and of course, this debate also takes place at a time when the tragedy of the uss cole is on our minds and hearts and insofar as the memorial service is tomorrow, i would like to also extend sympathy to the families of those who have died and those who are still missing, and the injured.
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now, mr. hankins, i think that the situation thatou describe has gotten completely out of hand. doctors are giving prescriptions, they're recommending treatments, and then their recommendations are being overruled by hmos and insurance companies. that is unacceptable. i support a strong national patient's bill of rights. it is actually a disagreement between us, a national law that is pending on this, the dingle- norwood bill, a bipartisan bill, is one that i support and that the governor does not. >> two minutes response, governor bush. >> i, too, want to extend my prayers and blessings, god's blessings on the families whose lives were overturned yes -- tod -- last night. it's a tragic moment. tually, mr. vice president, it's not true. i do support a national patient's bill of rights.
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as a matter of fact, i brought republicans and democrats together to do just that in the state of texas to get a patient's bill of rights through. it requires a different kind of leadership style to do it, though. you see, in order to get something done on behalf of the people, you have to put partisanship aside, and that's what we did in my state. we have one of the most advanced patient's bill of rights. it says, for example, that a woman doesn't have to go through a gate keeper to go to her gynecologist. it says that you can't gag a doctordoctor can advise you. the hmo, the insurance compa, can't gag that doctor from giving you full advice. and this particular bill, it allows patients to choose a doctor, their own doct if they want to. but we did something else that was interesting. we're one of the fit states that said you can sue an hmo for denying you proper coverage. now there's what's called an
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independent review organization that you have to go through first. it says if you've got a complaint with yr insurance company, you can take your complaint to an objective body. if the objective body rules on your behalf,he insurance company must follow those rules. however, if the insurance company doesn't follow the findings of the iro, then that becomes a cause of action in a court of law. it's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people, and i think this is right for the people. you know, i support a national patient's bill of rights, mr. vice president, and i want all people covered. i don't want the law to persede good law like we've got in texas. i think -- >> gernor, time is up, sir. >> jim, we have a direct disagreement on this. >> just a minute, mr. vice president. i want to -- the way the rules go here now, two minutes, two minutes, and then i'll decide whether we go on. okay. so what i want to make sure is we understand here is before we go on to another question in the health area, would you agree that you two agree on a
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national patient'bill of rights? >> absolutely not. i referred to the dingle- norwood bill. it is the bipartisan bill that is now pending in the congress. the hmos and the insurance companies support the other bill that's pending, the one that the republican majority has put forward. they like it because it doesn't accompli what i think really needs to be accomplished to give t decisions back to the doctors and nurses and give you a right of appeal to somebody other than the hmo or insurance company, let you go to the nearest emergency room without having to call an hmo before you call 911, to let you see a specialist if you need to, and it has strong bipartisan support. it is being blocked by the republican leadership in the congress. >> sir. >> and i specifically would like to know whether governor bush will support the dingle- norwood bill, which is the main one pending. >> governor bush, you may answer that if you'd like. but also i'd like to know how you see the differences between the two of you, anwe need to
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move on. >> well, the difference is is that i can get it done. that i can get something positive done on behalf of the people. that's what the question in this campaign is about. it's not only what's your philosophy and what's your position on issues, but can you get things done? and i believe i can. >> what about the dingle- norwood bill? >> all right. we're going to go now to another -- all right. yes. >> i'm not quite through. let me finish. i talked about the principles and the issues that i think are important in a patient's bill of rights. it's kind of washington, d.c. focus. well, it's in this committee or it's got this sponsor. if i'm the president, we're going to have emergency room care, we're going have gag orders, we're going to have direct access to ob/gyn. people will be able to take their hmo insurance company to court. that's what i've done in texas and that's the kind of leadership style i'll bring to washington. >> all right. another -- the next question
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also on health issue is from -- it will be asked by marie payne kloepy, and it goes to governor sh. >> are either of you concerned with -- are either of you concerned with finding some feasible way to lower the price of pharmaceutical drugs such as education on minimizing intake, revamp of the fda process or streamlining the drug companies' procedures instd of just finding more money to pay for them? >> well, that's a great question. i think one of the problems we have, particularly for seniors, is there is no prescription drug coverage in medicare. and therefore, when they have to try to purchase drugshey do so on their own, there's no kind of collective bargaining, no power of purchasing among seniors. so i think step one to make sure prescription drugs is more affordable for seniors, and
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those are the folks who really rely upon prescription drugs a lot these days, is to reform the medicare system, is to have prescription drugs as an integral part of medicare once and for all. the problem we have today is like the patient's bill of rights, particularly with health care, there's a lot of bickering in washington, d.c. it's kind of like a political issue as opposed to a people issue. so what i want to do is i want to call upon republicans and democrats to forget all the arguing and finger pointing, and come together and take care of o seniors' prescription drug program, that says we'll pay for the poor seniors, we'll help all seniors with prescription drugs. in the meantime, i think it's important to have what's called immediate helping hand, which is direct money to states so that seniors, poor seniors, don't have to choose between food and medicine.
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that's part of an overall overhaul. the purchasing powers. and i'against price controls. i think price controls would hurt our ability to continue important research and development. drug therapies are replacing a lot of medicines as we used to know it. one of the most important things is to continue the research and developnt component. and so i'm against price controls. expediting drugs through the fda makes sense, of course. allowing the new bill that was passed in the congress made sense to allow for, you know, drugs that were sold overseas to come back and other countries to come back into the united states. that makes sense. but the best thing to do is to reform medicare. >> vice president go, two minutes. >> all right, here we go again. now look, if you want someone who will spend a lot of words describing a whole convoluted process and then end up supporting legislation that is
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supported by the big drug companies, this is your man. if you want someone who will fight for you and who will fight for the middle-class families and working men and women, w are sick and tired of having their parents and grandparents pay higr prices for prescription drugs than anybody else, then i want to fight for you. and you asked a great question because it's not only seniors. listen, for 24 years i have never been afraid to take on the big drug companies. they do some great things. they discover great new cures and that's great. we want them to continue that. but they are now spending more money on advertising and promotion. you see all these ads? than they are on research and development. and they are trying artificially extend the monopoly patent protection so they can keep charging these very high prices. i want to streamline the approval of the competing
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generic drugs and the new kinds of treatments that can compete with them so we bring the price down for everybody. now, briefly, let me tell you how my prescription drug plan works. the governor talked about medicare. i propose a real prescription drug benefit under medicare for all seniors, all seniors, and here's how it works. you pick your own doctor, and nobody can take that away from you. the doctor chooses the prescription that you need and nobody can overrule your doctor. you go to your own pharmacy and then medicare pays half the price. if you're poor, they pay all of it. if you have extraordinarily high cost, then they p all over $4,000 out-of-pocket. and i'll bring new competition to bring the price down.
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and if you pass the big drug companies' bill, nothing will happen. >> all right. another health question, it comes from vickie french, and it's for you, vice president gore. vickie french, where are you? oh, there she is. >> we spend billions of dollars every year on taxes, or pay billions of dollars in taxes. would you be open to the idea of a national health care plan for everybody? and if not, why? if so, is this something you would try to implement if you are elected into office and what would you do to implement this plan? >> i think that we should move step-by-step toward universal health coverage, but i am not in favor of government doing it all. we've spent 65 years now on the development of a hybrid system, partly private, partly public, and 85% of our people have health insurance, 15% don't. that adds up to 44 million people. that is a national outrage. we have got to get health coverage for those who do not have it and we've got to improve the quality for those who do with a patient's bill of rights that's real and that works, the dingle-norwood bill, and we have got to fill in the gaps in coverage by finally bringing parity for the treatment of mental illness, because that's been left out. we have got to deal with long- term care.
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now, here are the steps that i would take, first of all. i will make a commitment to bring healthare coverage of high quality that is affordable to every single child in america within four years. and then we'll fill other gaps by covering the parents of those children when the family is poor or up to two and a half times the poverty rate. i want to give a tax credit for the purchase of individual health insurance plans. i want to give small business employers a tax credit, 25%, to encourage the providing of health insurance for the employees in small businesses. i want to give seniors who are, well, the near elderly, i don't like that term because i am just about in that category, but those 55 to 65 ought to be able to buy into medicare for premiums that are reasonable and fair and significantly below what they have to get now. now, we have a big difference on this. and you need to know the record here. under governor bush, texas has sunk to be 50th out of 50 in health care -- in healt insurance for their citizens. last week he said that they were spending $3.7 billion, or $4.7 billion on this.
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>> mr. vice president. >> okay. >> time is up. governor bush, two minutes. a i'm absolutely opposed to national health care plan. i don't want the federal government making decisions for consumers or for providers. i remember what the administration tried to do in 1993. they tried to have a national health care plan. and fortunately, it failed. i trust people, i don't trust the federal government. it's going to be one of the themes you hear tonight. i don't want the federal governnt making decisions on behalf of everybody. there isn issue with the
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uninsured, there sure is. and we have uninsured people in my state. ours is a big state, a fast- growing state. we share a common border with another nation. but we're providing health care for our people. one thing about insurance, that's a washgton term. the questions, are people getting health care, and we have a strong safety net, and there needs to be a safety net in america. there needs to be more community health clinics where the poor can go get health care. we need a program for the uninsured. they've been talking out it in washington, d.c. the number of unsured has now gone up for the past seven years. we need a $2,000 credit, rebate for people, working people that don't have insance, they can get in the marketplace and start purchasing insurance. we need to have -- allow small businesses to write insurance across jurisdictional lines so small business can afford
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health care, small restaurants can afford health care. so health care needs to be affordable and available. we have to trust people to make decisions with their lives. in the medicare reform i talk about it says if you are a senior, you can stay in medicare if you like it, and that's fine, but we're going to give you other choices to choose if you want to do so, just like they do the federal employees. the people that work in washington, d.c. for the u.s. congress or the united states senate. get a variety of choices to make in their lives. and that's what we ought to do for all people in america. >> yes, sir, sorry. >> follow-up? >> trying to find my light. >> not right now. education. these folks submitted 18 questions on education, and the first one is that will be asked on education will go to you, governor, and asked by angie pettig. angie pettig, where are you? there she is, governor, right there. >> i've heard a lot about education and the need to hold teachers and schools accountable, and i certainly agree with that. buas an individual with an
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educational background, and also a parent, i have seen a lot of instances where the parents are unresponsive to the teachers or flat out uninvolved in their child's education. how do you intend to not only hold the teachers and schools accountable but also hold parents accountable? >> well, you know, it's hard to make people love one another. i wish i knew the law because i would darn sure sign it. i wish i knew the law that said l of us would be good parents. one of the things theext president must do is to remind people that if we are going to have a responsible period in america, that each of us must love our children with all our heart and all our soul. i happened to believe strong accountability encourages parental invvement, though. i think when you measure and post results on the internet or in the town newspapers, most parents say wait a minute, my child's school isn't doing what i want it to do and, therefore, become involved in education. i recognize there are some who just don't seem to care. but there are a lot of parents who feel like everything is going well in their child's school, and all of a sudden
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they wake up and realize that wait a minute, standards aren't being met. that's why i'm so strong for accountability. i believe we ought to measure a lot, three, four, five, six, seven, eighth grade. we do son my state of texas. one of the good things we've gone in texas is we have strong accountability because you can't cure unless you know. you can't solve a problem unless you diagnose it. i strongly believe that one of the best things to encourage parental involvement also to know that the classrooms will be safe and secure. that's why i support a teacher liability act at the federal level, that says if a teacher or principal upholds reasonable standards of classroom scipline they can't be sued. they can't be sued. i think parents will be more involved with education when they know their children's classrooms are safe and secure as well. i also believe that we need to say to people that if you cannot meet standards, there has to be a consequence. instead of just comes the soft bigotry of low expectations, that there has to be a consequence.
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we can't continue to shuffle children through school. and one of the consequences to allow parents to have different choices. >> governor. vice president gore. >> we have huge difference between us on this question. i'd like to start by telling you what my vision is. i see a day in the united states of america where all of our public schools are considered excellent, world cls. where there are no failing schools, where the classrooms are small enough in size, number of students, so that the teacher can spend enough one-on- ontime with each student. now that means recruiting new teachers for the public schools. it means in my plan hiring bonuses to get 100,000 new teachers in the public schools within the next four years. it means also helping local school districts that sometimes
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find the parents of school age children outvoted on bond issues, to give them some help with interest-free bonding authority so that we can build new schools and modernize the classrooms. we need to give teachers the training and professional development that they need, including a paid time off go visit the classroom of a master teacher to pick up some new skills. i want to give every middle- class family a $10,000 a year tax deduction for college tuition so that middle-class families will always be able to send their kids on to college. i want to work for universal free school because we know from all the studies that the youngsters learn, kids learn more in the first few years of life than any where else. now, i said there was a contrast. governor bush is for vouchers, and in his plan he propos to drain more money, more taxpayer money out of the public schools
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for private school vouchers than all of the money that he proposes in his entire budget for public schools themselves. and only one in 20 students would be eligible for these vouchers, and they wouldn't even pay the full tuition to private school. i think that's a mistake. i don't think we shoulgive up on the private schools and leave kids trapped in failing schools. i think we -- think we should make it the number one priority to make our schools the best in the world, all of them. >> governor, what is your position on that? >> yeah, i appreciate that. i think any time we end with one of these attacks, it's appropriate to respond. here's what i think. first of all, vouche are up to states. if you want to do a voucher program in missouri, fine. i strongly believe in local control of schools. i'm a governor of state and i don't like it when the federal government tells us what to do. i believe in local control of schools. but here's what i said. i've said to the extent we
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spend federal money on disadvantaged children, we want the schools to show us whether or not the children are learning. what's unreasonable about that? we expect there to be staards met and we expect there to be measurement. and if we find success we'll praise it. but when we find children trapped in schools that will not change and will not teach, instead of saying oh, this is okay in america just to shuffle poor kids through schools, there has to be a consequence. and the consequence is that federal portion or federal money will go to the parent, so the parent can go a tutoring program or another public school or another private school. you see, there has to be a consequence. we've got a society that says hey, the status quo is fine, ju move them through. and guess who suffers. >> what's the harm on that, what's the other side on that? >> well, the program that he's proposing is not the one that he just described. described under your plan, govern bush, states would be required to pay vouchers to students to match the vouchers so that the federal government would put up. now, you're -- and the way it
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would happen is that under his plan, if a school was designated as failing, the kids would be trapped there for another three years and then some of them would get federal vouchers and the state would be forced to match those, that money. under my plan, if a school is failing, we work with the states to give them the authority and the resources to close down that school and reopen it right away with a new principal, a new faculty, a turn-around team of specialists who know what they're doing. it's based on the plan of governor jim hunt in north carolina, and it works great. >> so no vouchers under -- in a gore administration? >> if i thought that there was no alternative, then i might feel differently. but i have an obligation to fight to make sure there are no failing schools. we have to turn around -- most schools are excellent, but we have to make sure that all of them are. >> andrew kosberg has a related question on education that's right on this subject. mr. kosberg, where are you?
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and it's for vice president gore. >> mr. vice president, in a school district in which i work d in countless others across the nation, we face crumbling school buildings, increased school violence, student apathy, overcrowding, lack of funding, lawsuits, the list goes on. i could mention low teacher pay but i won't. what can you tell me and my fellow american teachers today about your plans for our immediate future? >> what grade do you teach? >> that's a violation of your rule, vice president gore. >> high school. i mentioned before that the local communities are having a harder time passing bond issues. traditionally, if you've been involved in a campaign like that, you know that the parents with kids in school are the ones that turn out and vote.
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it's ironic that there are now -- there is now a smaller percentage of the voters made up of parents with children than ever in american history because of the aging of our population, but at the same time we've got the largest generation of students in public schools ever. more than 90% of america's children go to public schools. and it's the largest number ever this year and they'll break the record next year and every year for ten years running. we've got to do something about this. and local -- it's not enough to leave it up to the local school districts. they're not able to do it and our future depends upon it. look, we're in an information ag
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our ecom future depends upon whether or not our children are going to t the kind of education that lets them go on to college. and again, i want to make it possible for all middle-class families to send their kids to college and more pell grants for those who are in the lower income groups also, and then i want to make sure that we have job training on top of that and lifelong learning, but it all starts with the public school teachers. my proposal gives $10,000 hiring bonuses for those teachers who are -- who get certified to teach in the areas where they're most needed. now, accountability, we basically agree on accountability. my plan requires testing of all students. itlso requires something that governor bush's plan doesn't. it requis testing of all new teachers, including in the subjects that they teach. we have to sta treating teachers like the professionals that they are, and give them the respect and the kind of
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quality of life that will draw more people into teaching because we need a lot more teachers. >> governor bush, two minutes. >> when you total up all the federal spending he wants to do, it's the largest increase in federal spending in years. and there's just not going to be enough money. i have been a governor of a big state, i have made education my number one priority. that's what governors ought to do. they ought to say is is the most important thing we do as a state. the federal government puts about 6% of the money up. they put about, you know, 60% of the strings where you have to fill out the paperwork. i don't know if you have to be a paperwork filler-outer, but most of it's because of the federal government. what i want to do is to send flexibility and authority to the local folks so you can choose what to do wi the
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money. one size does not fit all. i worry about federalizing education if i were you. i believe strongly that the federal government can help, we need to fund headstart. we need to have accountability. the vice president's plan does not have annual accountability, third grade, fourtgrade, fifth grade. we need to demand on resul. i believe strongly in a teacher otection act like i mentioned. i hear from teachers all the time aut the lawsuits and the threats, respect in the classroom. part of it's because you can't -- you can't control the classroom. you can't have a consequence for somebody without fear of getting sued underederal law. so i'm going to ask the congress to pass a teacher protection act. so i believe in flexibility, i believe in a national reading initiative for local districts to access with k through 2 diagnostic testing, curriculum that works, phonics works, by the way, it needs to be a part of our curriculum. there needs to be flexibility
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for teacher training and teacher hiring with federal money. the federal government can be a part, but don't fall prey to all this stuff about money here and money there because education is really funded at the local level. 94% comes from the local level. >> vice president gore, is the governor right when he says that you're proposing the largest federal spending in years? >> absolutely not. absolutely not. i'm so glad that i have the chance to knock that down. look, the problem is that under governor bush's plan, $1.6 trillion tax cut, mostly to the wealthy, under his own budget numbers, he proposes spending more money for a tax cut just for the wealthiest 1% than all the new money he budgets for education, health care and tional defense combined. now under my plan we'll balance the budget every year. i'm not just saying this. i'm not just talking. i have helped to balance the budget for the first time in 30 years, paid down the debt. and under my plan, in four years, as the percentage of our gross domestic product, federal spending will be the smallest that it has been in 50 years. one reason is, you know, the third biggest spending item in our budget is interest on the nation debt? we get nothing for it. we keep the good faith and credit of the united states. i will pay down the debt every single year until it is eliminated early in the next decade.
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that gets rid of the third biggest intrusion of the federal government in our economy. now, because the governor has all this money for a tax cut mostly to the wealthy, there is no money left over, so schools get testing and lawsuit reform and not much else. >> governor, the vice president says you're wrong. >> well, he's wrong. [laughter] just add up all the numbers. it's three times bigger than what president clinton proposed. the senate budget committee -- >> three times -- excuse me, three times bigger than what president clinton proposed? >> that was in an ad, jim, that was knocked down by the journalists who analyzed the ad and said it was misleading. >> my turn? >> yes, sir. >> forget the journalists. he proposed more than walter mondale and michael dukakis combined. this is a big spender. and he ought to be proud of it, it's part of his record. we jt ha aifferent
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philosophy. let me talk about tax relief. if you pay taxes, you ought to get tax relief. the vi president believes only the right people ought to get tax relief. i don't think that's the role of the president to pick you're right and you're not right. i think if you're going to have tax relief, everybody ought to get it. and therefore, wealthy peoe are going to get it. but the top 1% will end up paying one-third of the taxes america and they get one- fifth of the benefits. and that's because we structured the plan so that six million additional american families pay no taxes. if you're a family of four making $50,000 in missouri, you get a 50% cut in your federal income taxes. what i've done is set priorities and funded them. and there's extra money. and i believe the people who pay the bills ought to get some money back. it's a difference of opinion. he wants to grow the government and i trust you with your own money. i wish we could spend an hour talking about trusting people. it's just the right position to
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take. >> can we take the time -- >> governor -- yeah, hold on one second here, thought. the governor just reversed the thing. what do you say specifically to what the vicpresident said tonight, he said it many, many times, that your tax cut benefits the top 1% of the wealthiest americans, d you've heard what he said. >> of course it does. if you pay taxes, you are going to get a benefit. people who pay taxes will get tax relief. >> all right. why shouldn't they? >> l me finish. under my plan, if you make -- the top -- the wealthy people pay 62% of the taxes today. afterwards they pay 64%. this is a fair plan. you know why? because the tax code is unfair for people at the bottom end of the economic ladder. if you're a single mother making $22,000 a year today and you're trying to raise two children, for every additional dollar you earn you pay a higher marginal rate on that dollar than someone making $200,000, and that's not right. so i want to do something about that. >> vice president gore? >> yeah, look. look, this is't about governor bush, it's not about me. it is about you.
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and i want to come back to something i said before. if you wt somebody who believes that we were better off eight years ago th we are now and that we ought to go back to the kind of policies that we had back then, emphasizing tax cuts mainly for the wealthy, here is your man. if you want somebody who will fight for you and who will fight to have middle-class tax cuts, then i am your man. i want to be now, i doubt anybody here makes more than $330,000 a year. i won't ask you, but if you do, you're in the top 1%. >> it would be a violation of the rules. they couldn't -- >> i'm not going to ask them. but if everyone here in this audience was dead on in the middle of the middle-class, then the tax cuts for every single one of you all added up would be less than the tax cut his plan would give to just one member of that top wealthiest 1%. now you judge for yourselves whether or not that's fair. >> quick, and then we're moving on. >> good. 50 million americans get no tax relief under his plan. >> that's not right. >> you may not be one of them,
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you're just not one of the right people. and secondly, we've had enough fighting. it's time to unite. you talk about eight years? in eight years they haven't gotten anything done on medicare, on social security, a patient's bill of rights. it's time to get something done. >> hey, i've got to answer that, jim. >> all right. >> medicare -- i cast the tie- breaking vote to add 26 years to the life of medicare. it was due to go bankrupt in 1999 and that 50 million figure again, the newspapers -- i said -- you said forget the journalists, but they are the keepers of the score card and whether or not you're using facts that aren't right. and that fact is just not right. >> speaking of keepers of the score card, that's what i'm trying to do here mr. vice president and governor bush. we're gonna move on. we're gonna have to move on. all right, there were 12
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questions on foreign and military matters, and the first one that we're going to ask will be directed to you, governor bush. and david norwood is going to ask it. mr. norwood, where are you? there you are. >> what would you make -- what would make you the best candidate in office during the middle east crisis? >> i've been a leader. i've been a person who has to set a clear vision and convince people to follow. i've got a strategy for the middle east. and first let me say that our nation now needs to speak with one voice during this time, and i applaud the president for working hard to diffuse tensions.
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our nation needs to be credible and strong. when we say we're somebody's friend, everybody has got to believe it. israel is our friend and we'll stand by israel. we need to reach out to moderate arab nations as well to build coalitions to keep the peace. i also need -- the next leader needs to be patient. we can't put the middle eas peace process on our timetable. it's got to be on the timetable of the people that we're trying to bring to the peace table. we can't dictate the terms of peace, whicheans that you have to be steady. you can't worry about polls or
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focus groups. you've got to have a clear vision. that's what a leader does. a leader also understands that the united states must be strong to keep the peace. saddam hussein still is a threat in the middle east. our coalition against saddam is unraveling. sanctions are loosened. the man who may be developing weapons of mass destruction, we don't know because inspectors aren't in. so to answer your question, it requires a clear vision, a willingness to stand by our friends, and the credibility for people both friend and foe to understand when america says something, we mean it. >> vice president gore? >> i see a future when the world is at peace, with t united states of america promoting the values of democracy and human rights and freedom all around the world. even in iran they have had an election that began to bring about some change. we stand for those values and we have to be willing to assert them.
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right now our military is the strongest in the entire history of the world. i will -- i pledge to you i will do whatever is necessy to make sure that it stays that way. now, what can i bring to that challenge? when i was a young man, my father was a senator opposed to the vietnam war. when i graduated from college, there were plenty of fancy ways to get out of going and being a part of that. i went and i volunteered, and i went to vietnam. i didn't do the most or run the greatest risk by a long shot, but i learned what it was like to be an enlisted man in the united states army. in the congress, in the house of representatives, i served on the house intelligence committee and i worked hard to learn the subject of nuclear armsontrol and how we can diffuse these tensions and deal with non- proliferation and deal with the problems of terrorism and these new weapons of mass destruction. look, we're gonna face some seous new challenges in the next four ars. i've worked on that long and hard. when i went to the united states senate, i asked for an assignment to the armed services committee. and while i was there i worked
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on a bipartisan basis, as i did in the house, i worked with former president reagan on the modernization of our strategic weaponry. in the senate i was one of only ten democrats, along with senator joe liebern, to support governor bush's dad in the persian gulf war resolution. and for the last eight years i've served on the national security council. can i say just one other thing here? >> no, sir. we'll get that -- i'm gonna -- the next question is to you. >> fine, i'll wait. >> it's a related -- it's a related question that is going to be asked by kenneth allen. mr. allen? >> i think he gets a -- oh, i'm sorry, you're right, go ahead. >> mr. allen, right there. >> mr. vice president, today our military forces are stretched thinner and doing more than they have ever done before during peacetime. i would like to know what you are -- i think we would all like to know what you as president would do to ensure proper resourcing for the current mission and/or more selectively choosing the time and place that our forces will be used around the world. >> thank you, sir.
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just to finish briefly, i started to say that for the last eight years i've been on the national security council. last week i broke up -- i suspended campaigning for two days, or parts of two days, to go back and participate in the meetings that charted the president's summit meeting that he just returned from earlier today. and our team of -- our country's team over there did a great job. it's a difficult situation. the united states has to be strong in order to make sure that we can help promote peace and security and stability. and that means keeping our military strong. now, i said earlier that we are the strongest military, but we need to continue improving readiness and making sure that our military personnel are adequately paid and thathe combination of their pay and their benefits and their retirement as veterans is comparable to the stiff competition that's coming in this strong economy from the private sector.
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and i have supported the largest pay raise in many a year, and i support another one now. i also support modernization of our strategic and tactical weaponry. the governor has proposed skipping a generation of technology. i think that would be a mistake, because i think one of the ways we've been able to be so successful in kosovo and bosnia and haiti and in other places is by having the technological edge. you know, we won that conflict in kosovo without losing a single human life in combat, a single american life in combat. now, readiness. the trends before we -- before i got my current job were on the decline, the number of divisions were reduced. i argued that we should reverse that trend a take it back up. and i'm happy to tell you tha we have. now, in my budget for the next ten years i propose $100 billiofor this purpose. the governor proposes $45
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billion. i propose more than twice as much because i think it's needed. >> governor bush, two minutes. >> if this were a spending contest, i would come in second. i readily admit i'm not going to grow the size of the federal government like he is. your question was deployment. it must be in the national interests, must be in our vital interests whether we ever send troops. the mission must be clear. soldiers must unrstand why we're going. the force must be strong enough so that the miion can be accomplished. and the exit strategy needs to be well-defined. i'm concerned that we're overdeployed around the world. see, i think the mission has somewhat become fuzzy. should i be fortunate enough to earn your confidence, the mission of the united states military will be to be prepared and ready to fight and win war. and therefore prevent war from happening in the first place.
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there may be some moments when we use our troops as peacekeepers, but not often. the vice president mentioned my view of long-term for the military. i want to make sure the equipment for our military is the best it can possibly be, of course. but we have an opptunity -- we have an opportunity to use our research and development capacities, the great technology of the united states, to make our military lighter, harder to find, more lethal. we have an opportunity, really, if you think about it, if we're smart and have got a strategic vision and a leader who understands strategic planning, to make sure that we change the terms of the battlefield of the future so we can keep the peace. is is a peaceful nation, and i intend to keep the peace. spending money is one thing. but spending money without a strategic plan can oftentimes be wasted. first thing i'm going to do is ask the secretary of defense to
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develop a plan so we are making sure we're not spending our money on political projects, but on projects to make sure our soldiers e well-paid, well-housed, and have the best equipment in the world. >> governor bush, another kind of gun question. it will be asked by robert lutz. mr. lutz? >> governor bush -- >> yes, sir. >> would just like to know what is your opposition to the brady handgun bill? >> i'm sorry, i didn't hear that. >> would like to know why you object to the brady handgun bill, if you do object to it. because in a recent tv ad it showed that the national rifle association says that if you are elected, that they will be working out of your office. >> i don't think the national rifle association ran that ad. but let me just tell you my position on guns in general, sir, if you don't mind. >> euse me, i'm not sure he's finished with his question. >> i'm sorry. >> that kind of bothers me when i see an ad like that. i want you to explain that ad to me. >> well, i don't think i ran
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the ad. i think somebody who doesn't want me to be president might have run that ad. that wasn't my ad. i think it might have been one of my opponent's ads. here is what i belve, sir. i believe law-abiding citizens ought to be allowed to protect themselves and their families. i believe that we ought to keep guns out of the hands of people that shouldn'have them. that's why i'm for insnt background checks at gun shows, i'm for trigger locks, i think that makes sense. matter of fact, we distributed free trigger locks in the state of texas so that people can get them and put them on their guns to make their guns more safe. i think we ought to raise the age at which juveniles can have a gun. but i also believe strongl that we need to enforce laws on the books that the best way to make sure that we keep our society safe and secure is to hold people accountable for breaking the law. if we catch somebody illegally selling a gun, there needs to be a consequence. if we keep somebody -- you know, illegally using a gun, there needs to be a consequence.
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enforcement of law, and the federal government can help. there is a great program called project exile in richmon virginia, where we focused federal taxpayers' money and federal prosecutors and went after people who were illegally using guns. to me that's how you make society the safest it can be. and so, yeah, sometimes i agree with some of these groups in washington and sometimes i don't. i'm a pretty independent thinker. the one thing i'm for is a safe society. and i'm for enforcing laws on the books. and that's what is going to happen should i earn your confidence. >> vice president gore? >> wl, it was not one of my ads, either, governor. but i am familiar with the statement, and it was made by one of the top-ranking officials of that organization. let me tell you my positn. i think that some common sense gun safety measures are certainly needed with the flood of cheap handguns that have sometimes been working their
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way into the hands of the wrong people. but all of my proposals are focused on that problem, gun safety. none of my proposals would have any effect on hunters, or sportsmen, or people who use rifles. they're aimed at the real probm. let's make our schools safe, let's make our neighborhoods safe. let's have a three-day waiting period, coolg off, so we can have a background check to make sure that criminals and people whreally shouldn't have guns don't get them but i would like to use my remaining time on this exchange, jim, to respond to an exchange that took place just a moment ago. because a couple of times the governor has said that i am for a bigger government. governor, i'm not. and let me tell you whathe record shows. for the last eight years i have had the challenge of running the streamlining program called reinventing government. and if there are any federal
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employees in this group, you know what that means. the federal government has been reduced in size by more than 300,000 people. and it's now the smallest number that we have had since the -- the smallest in size since john kennedy's administration. during the last five years, texas's governmentas gone up in size. federal government has gone down, texas's government has gone up. now, my plan for the future, i see a time when we have smaller, smarter government where you don't have to wait in line because you can get services online cheaper, better, faster. we can do that. >> steve luecker has a question, and it is for vice president gore. mr. luecker? there you are. >> vice president gore. the family farms are disappearing and having a hard time even in the current positive economic environment. what steps would you or your administration take on agricultural policy
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developments to protect the family farms for this multi- functional service they perform? >> we've got a bumper crop this year. but that's the good news. you know what the bad news is that follows on that. the prices are low. in the last several years, the so-called freedom to farm law has, in my view, been mostly a failure. i want to change many of its provisions. now, many here who are not involved in farming don't -- won't follow this, so just forgive me. because the 2% of the country that is involved in farming is important because the rest of us wouldn't eat except for them. and you guys have been having a hard time, and i want to fight for you. i want to change those provisions. i want to restore a meaningful safety net. and i think that you pointed the way in your comments, because when you say there are multiple things accomplished by farmers, you're specifically
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including conservation and protection of the environment. and yes, farmers are the first environmentasts. and when they decide not to plow a field that is vulnerable to soil erosn, that may cost them a little money, but it helps the environment. i think that we ought to have an expanded conservation reserve program. and i think that the environmental benefits that come from sound management of the land ought to represent a new way for farmers to get some income that will enable them -- enable you to make sensible choices in crop rotation, and when you leave the land fallow and the rest. now, i'll go beyond that and say i think we need much more focus on rural economic development programs. i see a time when the internet- based activities are more available in the rural areas and where the extra source of income that farm families used to have from shoe factories is replaced by an extra source of income from working in the information economy.
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so we need to do a lot of things, but we ought to start with a better safety net. >> governor bush, two minutes. >> i would like our farmers feeding the world. we're the best producers in the world, and i want -- i want the farmers feeding the world. we need to open up markets. exports are wn, and every time an export number goes down, it hurts the farmer. i want the next president to have fast track negotiating authority to open up markets around the world. weâ™re the best and the most efficient farmers. i don't want to use food as a diplomatic weapon from this point forward. we shouldn't be using food. it hurts the farmers. it's not the right thing to d i'm for value-added processing. we need more work on value-
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added processing. you take the raw product you produce, i presume you're a farmer, off your farm, and you convert it. value-added processing i important. i'm for research and development. spending research and development money so that we can use our technological base to figure out new uses for farm products. i'm for getting rid of the death tax, completely getting rid of the death tax. one reason family farmers are forced to sell early is because of the death tax. this is a bad tax. the president shouldn't have vetoed that bill. it's a tax that taxes people twice. it penalizes the family farmer. so should i be fortunate enough to earn your vote, i also understand -- i want to open up markets, but i also understand that farming is a part of our national security. i'm from a big farm state. we're the second biggest state -- farming state in the country. and i hear from my farmers and friends all the time. the vice president is right, by the way. every day is earth day if you own the land i like the policies that will
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encourage farmers to put -- set aside land as well for conservation purposes. thank you. >> a quick thing on the inheritance tax. there is a difference between the two of you on this. vice president gore? >> yeah. i'm for a massive reform of the estate tax or the death tax. and under the plan that i've proposed, 80% of all family farms will be completely exempt from the estate tax. and the vast majority of all family businesses would be completely exempt, andll of the others would have sharply reduced. so 80% -- now the problem with completely eliminating it goes back to the wealthiest 1%. the amount of money that has to be raised in taxes for middle- class families to make up for completely eliminating that on the very wealthiest, the billionaires, that would be an extra heavy burden on middle- class families. and so let's do it for most all, but not completely elimine it for the very top.
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>> what's the case for doing that, governor? >> eliminating the death tax. >> completely. for everybody. >> because people shouldn't be taxed twice on their assets. it's either unfair for some or unfair for all. again, this is just a difference of opinion. if you're from washington, you want to pick and choose winners. i don't think that's the role of the president. i think if you're going to have tax relief, everybody benefits. secondly, i think your plan -- a lot ofine print in your plan, mr. vice president, with all due respect. it is -- i'm not so sure 80% of the people get the death tax. i know this, 100% will get it if i'm the president. i just don't think it's fair to tax people's assets twice regardless of your status. it's a fairness issue. it's an issue of principle, not politics. >> new issue. new issue. and the question will be asked by joyce cleamer of governor bush. joyce cleamer? there you are. >> hi, joyce. >> hi, governor. i'm very concerned about the morality of our country now. tv, movies, the music that o children are, you know,
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barraged with every day. and i want to know if there's anything that can be worked out with the -- hollywood, or whoever, to help get rid of some of this bad language and whatever, you know. it's just bringing the country down. and our children are very important to us and we're concerned about their education at school. we should be concerned about their education at home, also. thank you. >> appreciate that question. laura and i are proud parents of teenage girls, twin daughters, and i know what you're saying. government ought to stand on the side of parents. parents are teaching their children right from wrong, and the message oftentimes gets undermined by the popular culture.
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you bet there's things that government can do. we can work with the entertainment industry to provide family hour. we can have filters on internets where public money is spent. there ought to be filters in public libraries and filters in public schools so if kids get on the internet, there is not going to be pornography or violence coming in. i think we ought to have character education in our schools. i know that doesn't directly talk aut hollywood, but it does reinforce the values you're teaching. greatly expand character education funding so tha public schools will teach children values, values which have stood the test of time. there's afterschool money available. i think that afterschool money ought to be available for faith- based programs and charitable programs that exist because somebody has heard the call to love a neighbor like you would like to be loved yourself. that will help reinforce the
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values that parents teach at home as well. ours is a great land, and one of the reasons why is because we're free. and so i don't support censorship. but i do believe that we ought to talk plainly to the hollywood moguls and people who produce this stuff and explain the consequences. i think we need to have rating systems that are clear. i happen to like the idea of having technology for the tv, easy for parents to use so you can tuneut these programs you don't want in your house. i'll remind mothers and dads the best weapon is the off/on button, and paying attention to your children, and eating dinner with them and being -- i'm sorry. i was on my peroration. >> my turn. >> vice president gore. >> i care a lot about this. it's not just movies; television, video games, music, the internet. parents now feel like you have
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to compete with the mass culture in order to raise your kids with the values that you want them to have. tipper and i have four children. and god bless them, every one of them decided on their own to come here this evening. i don't want to embarrass our oldest daughter. she and her husband made us grandparents almost a year-and- a-half ago, and yet if she'll forgive me, when she was little, she brought a record home that had some awful lyrics in it and tipper hit the ceiling. and that launched a campaign to try to get the record companies to put ratings that -- warning labels for parents. and i'm so proud of what she accomplished in getting them on there. i've been involved myself in negotiating and helping to me along the negotiations with the internet service providers to get a parents' protection page
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every time 95% of the pages come up. and a feature that allows parents to automatically check with one click what sites your kids have visited lately. you know, some parents are worried about those filters, that you will have to ask your kids how to put them on there. but if you can check up on them, that's real power. and recently the federal trade commission pointed out that some of these tertainment companies have warned parents that the material is inappropriate for children, and then they've turned around behind the backs of the parents and advertised that same adult material directly to children. that is an outrage. joe lieberman and i gave them six monthso clean up their act. and if they don't do it, we're gonna ask for tougher authority in the hands of the ftc on the false and deceptive advertising. i'll tell you this, i want to something about this. respect the rst amendment, but i will do something to help you raise your kids without >> a. vice president gore, the next question is for you, and it will be asked by steven koosmann.
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mr. koosmann, where are you, sir? you're right behind me as well. there we go. >> right next to the last. >> it seems that when we hear about issues of this campaign, it's usually medicare, social security or prescription drugs. as a college professor, i hear a lot of apathy amont young people who feel that there are no issues directed to them. and they don't plan to vote. how do you address that? >> we've got to change it. i spend a good deal of time talking to young people, and in my staard speech out there on the stump i usually end my speech by saying, i want to ask you for something and i want to direct it especially to the young people in the audience. ani want to tell you what i tell them. sometimes people who are very idealistic and have great dreams, as young people do, are apt to stay at arm's length from the political process because they think their good hearts
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might be brittle, and if they invest their hopes and allow themselves to believe, then they're gonna be let down and disappointed. but thank goodness we've always had enough people who have been willing in every generation to push past the fear of a broken heart and become deeply involved in forming a more perfect union. we're america, and we believe in our future and we know we have the ability to shape our future. now, we've got to address one of the biggest threats to our democracy. and that is the current campaign financing system. and i know they say it doesn't rank anywhere on the polls. i don't believe that's a fair measure. i'm telling you, i will make it the -- i will make the mccain- feingold campaign finance reform bill the very first measure that i send to the congress as president.
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governor bush opposes it. i wish that he would consider changing his mind on that. because i think that thepecial interests have too much power, and we need to give our democracy back to e american people. let me tell you why. those issues you mentioned, social security, prescription drugs, the big drug companie are against the prescription drug proposal that i've made. the hmos are against the patient's rights bill, the ding-norwood bill that i support, and that gov. bush does not support. the g oil compies are ainst the measures to get more energy independence and renewablfuel. ey ought to have their voices heard, but they shouldn't have a big megaphone that drowns out the american people. we need campaign finance reform and we need to shoot straight with young and old alike and tell them what the real choices are. and we can renew and rekindle the american spirit and make our future what our founders dreamed it could be. we can. >> governor bush, two minutes. tell you what i hear. a lot of people are sick and tired of the bitterness in washington, d.c. and therefore they don't want any part of politics.
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they look at washington and see people pointing fingers and casting blame and saying one thing and doing another. there's a lot of young folks saying, you know, why do i want to be involved with this mess? and what i think needs to happen in order to encourage the young to become involved is to shoot straight, is to set aside the partisan differences, and set an agenda that will make sense. medicare, i know you talked about it, but medicare is relevant for all of us, young and old alike. we better get it right now. tax reform is relevant for old and young alike. i don't think it's the issues that turn kids off. i think it's the tone. i think it's the attitude. i think it's a cynicism in washington and it doesn't have be that way.
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before i decided to run, i had to resolve two issues in my mind. one, could our family endure all this business. and i came to the conclusion that our love was strong enough to be able to do it. the other was could an administration change the tone in washington, d.c. and i believe the answer is yes, otherwise i wouldn't be asking for your vote. that's what happened in texas. we worked together. there is a man here in this audien named hugo berlanga. he is thchairman of the health committee. he came here for a reason, to tout our record on health in texas. he's a democrat. i didn't care whether he was a republican or democrat. what i cared about is could we work together. that's what washington, d.c. needs. and finally, sir, to answer your question, you need somebody in office who will tell the truth. that's the best way to get people back in the system. >> governor bush, norma curby has the next question. and it's for you. norma curby, where are you?
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>> hi, norma. >> hi. how will your administration address diversity, inclusiveness, and what role will affirmative action play in your overall plan? >> i've had a record of bringing people from all walks of life into my administration, and my administration is better off for it in texas. i'm going to find people that want to serve their country. but i want a diverse administration, i think it's important. i've worked hardn the state of texas to make sure our institutions reflect the state with good, smart policy. policy that rejects quotas. i don't like quotas. quotas tend to pit one group of people against another. quotas are bad for america. it's not the way america is all about. but policies that give people a helping hand so they can help themselves.
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for example, in our state of texas i worked with the legislature, both republicans and democrats, to pass a law that said if you come in the top 10% of your high school class, you're automatically admitted to one of our higher institutions of learning, college. and as a result, our universities are now more diverse. it was a smart thing to do. what i called it, i labeled it affirmative access. i think the contracting business in government can help. not with quotas, but help meet a goal of ownership of small businesses, for example. the contracts need to be smaller, the agencies need to be -- need to recruit and to work hard to find people to bid on the state contracts. i think we can do that in a way that represents what america is all about, which is equal opportunity and an opportunity for people to realize their potential.
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so to answer your question, i support, i guess the way to put it, is affirmative access. i'll have an administration that will make you proud. thank you. >> vice president gore? >> i believe in this goal and effort with all my heart. i believe that our future as a nation depends upon whether or not we can break down these barriers that have been used to pit group against group, and bring our pele together. how do you do it? well, you establish respect for differences. you don't ignore differences. it's all too easy for somebody in the majority in the population to say oh, we're just all the same, without an understanding of the different life experience that you've had, that others have had. once you have that understanding and mutual respect, then we can transcend the differences and embrace the highest common denominator of the american spirit. i don't know what affirmative access means. i do know what affirmative action means. i know the governor is against it, and i know that i'm for it.
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i know what a hate crime statute pending at the national level is all about in the aftermath of james byrd's death. i'm for that proposed law, the governor is against it. i know what it means to have a commitment to diversity. i am part of an administration that has the finest record on diversity. and incidentally, an excellent -- i mean, i think our success over the last eight years has not been in spite of diversity but because of it. because we're able to draw on the wisdom and experience from different parts of the society that hadn't been tapped in the same way before. and incidentally, mel carnahan in missouri had the finest record on diversity in any governor in the entire history of the state of missouri. and i want to honor that among his other achievements here. now, i just believe that what we have to do is enforce the civil rights laws. i'm against quotas. this is, with all due respect, governor, that's a red herring. affirmative action isn't quotas. i'm against quotas, they're illegal.
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they're against themerican way. affirmative action means that you take extra steps to acknowledge the history of discrimination and injustice and prejudice and bring all people into the american dream because it helps everybody, not just those who are directly benefitting. >> governor, what is your -- are you opposed to affirmative action? >> if affirmative action means quotas, i'm against it. if affirmative action means what i just described what i'm for, then i'm for it. you heard what i was for. the vice president keeps saying i'm against things. you heard what i was for, and th's what i support. >> what about -- mr. vice president, you heard what he said. >> he said if affirmative action means quotas, he's against it. affirmative action doesn't mean quotas. are you for it without quotas? >> i may not be for your version, mr. vice president, but i'm for what i just described to the lady.
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>> are you for what the supreme court says is a constitutional way of having affirmative action? >> let's go on to another -- >> i think that speaks for itself. >> no, it doesn't speak for itself, mr. vice president, it speaks for the fact that there are certain rules in this that we all agree to, but evidently rules don't mean anything. >> the question is for you, vice president gore, and lisa kee will ask it. lisa kee, where are you? therwe go, sorry. >> how will your tax proposals affect me as a middle-class, 34- year-old single person with no dependents? >> if you make less than $60,000 a year and y decide to invest $1,000 in a savings account, you'll get a tax credit, which means in essence that the federal government will match your $1,000 with another $1,000. if you make le than $30,000 a year and you put $500 in a savings account, the federal government will match it with $1500.
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if you make more tn $60,000 and up to 100 you'll still get a match, but not as generous. you'll get an access to life- long learning and education, helpith tuition if you want to get a new skill or training. if you want to purchase health insurance, you will get help with that. if you want toarticipate in some of the dynamic changes that are going on in our country, you will get specific help in ing that. if you a part of the -- of the bottom 20% or so of wage earners, then you will get an expanded earned income tax credit. now, the tax relief that i propose is directed specifically at middle-income individuals and families. and if you have a -- if you have an elderly parent or grandparent who needs long-term carethen you will get help with that.
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$3,000 tax credit to help your expenses in taking care of a loved one who needs long-term care. >> governor bush? >> let me just say the first -- this business about the entitlement he tried to describe about savings, you know, matching savings here and matching savings there, fully- funded it's gonna cost a whole lot of money, a lot more than we have. you're going to get a tax relief in my plan. you're not going to be targeted in or targeted out. everybody that pays taxes is going to get tax relief. if you take care of an elderly in your home, you're going to get the personal exemption increased. i think also what you need to think about is not the immediate, but what about medicare? you get a plan that will include prescription drugs, a plan that will give you options. now, i hope people understd that medicare today is important, but it doesn't keep up with the new medicines.
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if you're a medicare person, on medicare, you don't get the new procedures. you're stuck in a time warp in many ways. so it will be a modern medicare system that trusts you to make a variety of oions for you. you're going to live in a peaceful world. it will be a world of peace because we're going to have a clear sight of foreign policy based upon a strong military and a mission that stands by our friends. a mission that doesn't try to be all things to all peop. a judicious use of the military which will help keep the peace. you'llive in a world, hopefully, that is more educated so it's less likely you'll be harmed iyour neighborhood. see, an educated child is one much more likely to be hopeful and optimistic. you'll be in a world in which fits into my philosophy. the harder you work, the more you can keep. it's the american way. government shouldn't be a heavy hand. it's what the federal government does tyou. it should be a helping hand, and tax relief and the proposals i just described should be a good helping hand. >> governor, next question is for you, and leo anderson will ask it.
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mr. anderson. you want a mike? >> in one of the last debates held, the subject of capital punishment came up, and in your response to the question, you seemed overly joyed and as a matter of fact proud that texas led the nation in the execution of prisoners. sir, did i misre your response and are you really, really proud of the fact that texas is number one in executions? >> no, i'm not proud of that. the death penalty is a very serious business, leo. it's an issue that good people obviously disagree on. i take my job seriously. and if you think i was proud of it, i think you misread me, i do. i was sworn to uphold the laws of my state. during the course of the campaign in 1994 i was asked do you support the death penalty.
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i said i did if administered fairly and justly. because i believe it saves lives, leo, i do. if it's administered swiftly, justly and fairly, it saves lives. one of the things that happens when you're a governor, at least oftentimes you have to make tough decisions. you can't let public persuasion sway you, because the job is to enforce the law. and that's what i did, sir. there have been some tough cases come across my desk. some of the hardest moments since i've been the governor of the state of texas is to deal with those cases. but my job is to ask two questions, sir. is the person guilty of the crime? and did the person have full access to the courts of law? and i can tell youooking at you right now, in all cases those answers were affirmative.
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i'not proud of any record. i'm proud of the fact that violent crime is down in the state of texas. i'm proud of the fact that we hold people accountable. but i'm not proud of any record, sir, i'm not. >> vice president gore? >> i support theeath penalty. i think that it has to be administered not only fairly with attention to things like dna evidence, which i think should be used in all capital cases, but also with very careful attention. if, for example, somebody confesses to the crime and somebody is waiting on death row, there has to be alertness to say wait a minute, have we got the wrong guy? if the wrong guy is put to death, then that's a double tragedy. not only has an innocent person been executed, but the real perpetrator of the crime has not been held accountable for it. and in some cases may be still at large. but i support the death penalty in the most heinous cases.
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>> do both of you believe the death penalty actually deters crime? governor? >> i do. it's the only reason to be for it. let me finish, sir. i don't think you should support the death penalty to seek revenge. i don't think that's right. i think the reason to support the death penalty is because it saves other people's lives. >> i think it is a deterrent. i know that's a controversial view, but i do believe it's a deterrent. >> next question is for you, vice president gore, and thomas fischer will ask it. mr. fischer? >>es. my 6th gde class at st. claire's school wanted to ask of all these promises you guys are making and all the pledges, will you keep them when you're in office? [laughter] >> yes. [laughter] i am a person who keeps promises.
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and, you know, we've heard a lot about -- from the governor about not much being done in the last eight years, as if the promises that i made eight years ago have not been kept. i think the record shows otherwise. we have gone from the biggest deficits eight years ago to the biggest surpluses in history today. instead of high unemployment, we now have the lowest african- american unemployment, the lowest latino unemployment ever measured. 22 million new jobs,ery low unemployment nationally. instead of ballooning the debt and multiplying it four times over, we have seen the debt actually begun to be paid down. here are some promises that i'll make to you now. i will balance the budget every year. i will pay down the debt every year. i will give middle-class americans tax cuts, meaningful
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ones. and i willnvest in education, health care, protecting the environment and retirement security. we both made promises in this campaign. i promise you i will keep mine. let me tell you about one of the governor's. he has promised a trillion dollars out of the social security trust fund for young working adults to invest and save on their own. but he's promised seniors that their social security benefits will not be cut, and he's promised the same trillion dollars to them. and embrace the highest common denominator of thamerican spirit. i don't know what affirmative access means. i do know what affirmative
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>> i know what hit cram -- hate crime statute is all about. i am for the proposed law. the governor is against it. i know what it means to have a commitment to diversity. i am part of an administration that has the finest record on diversity and an excellent -- our success over the last eight years has not been in spite of diversity but because of it. we are able to draw on the wisdomnd experience from different parts of society that had not been tapped in the same way before. mel in missouri had the finest record on diversity of any governor in the entire history of the state of missouri. i want to honor that among his her achievements here. will we have to do is enforce the civil rights law. i'm against quotas.
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that is a red herring. affirmative action is not quotas. i'm against quotas. they are illegal. they are against the american way. affirmative action means to take extra steps to acknowledge the history of discrimination and injustice of prejudice and bring all people into the american dream. because it helps everybody, not just those who are directly benefiting. >> governor, are you opposed to afrmative action? parks -- >> if affirmative action discuss what i just said, i am for it. her but i just said i'm for. you heard what i was for. that is what i support. >> mr. vice president, you heard what he said. >> to setup a permanent action means quotas, he is against it. are you for it without quotas? >> i may not be for your version with and for what i just described for the lady.
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>> are you for what the supreme court says is a constitutional way of having affirmative- action? >> let's on-- go on to another -- >> it speaks to the fact that there are certain rules but evidently rules to not mean anything. >> the question is pretty vice president. lisa kee will ask it. >> how weird tax proposals affect me as a middle-class 34- year old single person with no dependents? >> if you make less than a $60,000 a year and you decide to invest $1,000 in a savings account, you will get a tax credit which means the federal governmentill match your $1,000 with another $1,000. if you make less than $30,000 a year in the put five and the dollars in savings account, the
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federal government will match youith $1,500. if you make more than $60,000 and up to $100,000, you will still get a match but not as generous. he will get access to lifelong learning and education, help with tuition if you want to get a new skill or training. if you want to purchase health insurance, you will get help -- help with that. if you want to participate in some of the dynamic changes going on in our country, you will get specific help in doing that. if you are part of the 20 percent of wage earners, then you will get an expanded earned income tax credit. the tax relief i propose is directed specifically at middle inco individuals. if you have an elderly parents or grandparents who need long-
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term care, you will get help with that. a $3,000 tax credit to help your expenses in taking care of a loved one who need long-term care. >> governor bush? >> let me just say the first -- this business about the entitlement he tried to describe about savings, you know, matching savings here and matching savings there, fully- funded it's gonna cost a whole lot of money, a lot more than we have. you're going to get a tax relief in my plan. you'reot going to be targeted in or targeted out. everybody that pays taxes is going to g tax relief. if you take care of an elderly in your home, you'reoing to get the personal exemption increased. i think also what you need to think about is not the immediate, but what about medicare? you get a plan that will include prescription drugs, a plan that will give you options. now, i hope people understand that medicare today is important, but it doesn't keep up with the new medicines. if you're a medicare person, on
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medicare, you don't get the new procedures. you're stuck in a time warp in many ways. so it will be a modern medicare system that trusts you to make a variety of options for you. you're going to live in a peaceful world. it will be a world of peace because we're going to have a clear sight of foreign policy based upon a strong military and a mission that stands by our friends. a mission that doesn't try to be all things to all people. a judicious use of the military which will help keep the peace. you'll live in a world, hopefully, that is more educated so it's less likely you'll be harmed in your neighborhood. see, an educated child is one much more likely to be hopeful and optimist. you'll be in a world in which fits into my phisophy. the harder you work, the more you can keep. it's the american way. government shouldn't be a heavy hand. it's what the federal government does to you.
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it should be a helping hand, and tax relief and theroposals i just described should be a good helping hand. >> governor, next question is for u, and leo anderson will ask it. mr. anderson. you want a mike? >> in one of the last debates held, the subject of capital punishment came up, and in your response to the question, you seemed overly joyed and as a matter of fact proud that texas led the nation in the execution of prisoners. sir, did i misread your response and are you really, really proud of the fact that texas is number one in executions? >> no, i'm not proud of that. the death penalty is a very serious business, leo. it's an issue that good people obviously disagree on. i take my job seriously. and if you think i was proud of it, i think you misread me, i
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do. i was sworn to uphold the laws of my state. during the course of the campaign in 1994 i was asked do you support the death penalty. i said i did if administered fairly and justly. because i believe it sav lives, leo, i do. if it's administered swiftly, justly and fairly, it saves lives. one of the things that happens when you're a governor, at least oftentimes you have to make tough decisions. you can't let public persuasion sway you, because the job is to enforce the law. and that's what i did, sir. there have been some tough cases come across my desk. some of the hardest moments since i've been the governor of the state of texas is to deal with those cases. but my job is to ask two questions, sir. is the person guilty of the crime? and did the person have full access to the courts of law?
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and i can tell you looking at you right now, in all cases those answers were affirmative. i'm not proud of any record. i'm proud of the fact that violent crime is down in the state of texas. i'm proud of the fact that we hold people accountable. but i'm not proud of any record, sir, i'm not. >> vice president gore? >> i support the death penalty. i think that it has to be administered not only fairly with attention to things like dna evidence, which i think should be used in all capital cases, but also with very careful attention. if, for example, somebody confesses to the crime and somebody is waiting on death row, there has to be alertness to say wait a minute, have we got the wrong guy? if the wrong guy is put to death, then that's a double tragedy. not only has an innocent person
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been executed, but the real perpetrator of the crime has not been held accountable for it. and in some cases may betill at large. but i support the death penalty in the most heinous cases. >> do both of you believe th death penalty actually deters crime? governor? >> i do. it's the only reason to be for it. let me finish, sir. i don't think you should support the death penalty to seek revenge. i don't think that's right. i think the reason to support the death penalty is because it saves other people's lives. >> i think it is a deterrent. i know that's a controversial view, but i do believe it's a deterrent. >> next question is for you, vice president gore, and thomas fischer will ask it. mr. fischer? >> yes. my 6th grade class at st. claire'school wanted to ask of all these promises you guys are making and all the pledges, will you keep them when you're in office? [laughter] >>es. [laughter] i am a person who keeps promises.
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and, you know, we've heard a lot about -- from the governor about not much being done in the last eight years, as if the promises that i made eight years ago have not been kept. i think the record shows otherwise. we have gone from the biggest deficits eight years ago to the biggest surpluses in history today. instead of high unemployment, we now have the lowest african- american unemployment, t lowest latino unemployment ever measured. 22 million new jobs, very low unemployment nationally. instead of ballooning the debt and multiplying it four times over, we have seen the debt actually begun to be paid down. here are some promises that i'll make to you now.
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i will balance the budget every year. i will pay down the debt every year. i will give middle-class americans tax cuts, meaningful ones. and i will invest in education, health care, protecting the environment and retirement security. we both made promises in this campaign. i promise you i will keep mine. let me tell you about one of the governor's. he has promised a trillion dollars out of the social security trust fund for young working adults to invest and save on their own. but he's promised seniors that their social security benefits will not be cut, and he's promised the same trillion dollars to them. so this is a show me state. reminds me of the line from the movie, "show mthe money." which one of those promises will you keep and wch will you break, governor? >> governor bush. >> thank you for your question. [laughter] i --here's an old high school
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debating trick, which is to answer something and then attack your opponent at the end. you asked about promises. you were promised that medicare would be reformed, and that social security would be reformed. you were promised a middle-class tax cut in 1992. it didn't happen. there's too much bitterness in washington. there's too much wrangling. it's time to have a fresh start. one of the reasons i was successful as the governor of texas is because i didn't try to be all things to all people. when i campaigned in a race, a lot of folks didn't think i could win including, by the way, my mother. [laughter] i said i'd do four things; tort reform, education reform, welfare reform and juvenile justice reform. and i won.
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and i had the will of the people in my state behind me. and then i brought folks together to get it done. and that's what we need, i think, in this election. to me that's what it's all about. i'm sure your 6th grade kids are listening and saying, these guys will say anything to get elected. but there's a record, and that's what i hope people look at. one of my promises is going to be social security reform, and you bet, we need to take a trillion dollars out of that $2.4 trillion surplus. now remember, social security revenue exceeds expenses up until 2015. people are going to get paid. but if you' a younger worker, if you're younger, you better hope this country thinks differently, otherwise you're gonna be faced with huge payroll taxes or reduced benefits. and you bet we're gonna take a trillion dollars of your own money and let you invest it under safe guidelines so you get a better rate of return on the money than the paltry 2% that the federal government gets for you today. that's one of my promises.
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but it's gonna require people to bring both republicans and democrats together to get it done. that's what irequires. there was a chance to get this done. it was a bipartisan approach, but it's been rejected. i'm going to bring them together. >> both of you -- both of you on this subject. there are other questions that also go to this skepticism, not necessarily about you, but all people in politics. why is that? >> well, first of all, jim, i would like to respond to what the gornor just said. because the trillion dollars that has been promised to young people has also been promised to older people. and you cannot keep both promises. if you're in your mid-40's under the governor's plan, social security will be bankrupt by the time you retire, if he takes it out of the social security trust fund. under my plan it will be -- its solvency will be extended until you're 100. now that is the difference. and the governor may not want to answer that question, he may want to call it a high school debating trick, but let me tell
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you this. this election is not about debating tricks, it is about your future. the reason social security -- he says it gets 2%. you know, it's not a bank account that just pays back money that's invested. it is also used to give your moers and fathers the social security checks that they live on. if you take a trillion dollars out of that social security trust fund, how are the checks going to be -- how are you going to keep faith with the seniors? now let me come directly to your question. >> we have to go to the closing statements and -- >> well, can i answer that? one reason people are skeptical is because people don't answer the questions they've been asked. the trillion dollars comes out of the surplus so that you can invest some of your own money. there's just a difference of opinion. i want workers to have their own assets. it's who you trust, government or people. >> all right.
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now we're going to go to closing statements. vice president gore, you're first. >> thank you very much, jim, and i'll begin by answering your questions -- your last question. i believe that a lot of people are skeptical about people in politics today because we have seen a time of great challenge for our country. since the assassination of our best leaders in the '60's, since the vietnam war, since watergate, and becau we need campaign finance reform. i would like to te you something about me. i keep my word. i have kept the faith. i've kept the faith with my country. i volunteered for the army. i served in vietnam. i kept the faith with my family. tipper and i have been married for 30 years. we have devoted ourselves to our children and now our nearly one- and-a-half-year-old grandson. i have kept the faith wi our country. nine times i have raed my hand to take an oath to the constitution, and i have never violated that oath. i have not spent the last
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quarter century in pursuit of personal wealth. i have spent the last quarter century fighting for middle- class working men and women in the united states of america. i believe very deeply that you have to be willing to stand up and fight no matter what powerful forces might be on the other side. if you want somebody who is willing to fight for you, i am asking for your support and your vote and, yes, your confidence and your willingness to believe that we can do the right thing in america, and be the better for it. we've made some progress during the last eight years. we have seen the strongest economy in the history of the united states. lower crime rates for eight years in a row. highest private home ownership ever, but i'll make you one promise here. you ain't seen nothing yet. and i will keep that promise. >> governor bush, two minutes. >> well, jim, i want to thank you and thank the folkhere at washington university and the
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vice president. appreciate the chance to hava good, nest dialogue about our differences of opinion. i think after three debates the good people of this country understand there is a difference of opinion. there is a difference between big federal government and somebody who is coming from outside of washington who will trust individuals. i've got an agenda that i want to get done for the country. it's an agenda that says we're going to reform medicare to make sure seniors have got prescription drugs and to give seniors different options from which they can choose. it's an agenda that says we're listen to the young voices in social security and say we're going to think differently about making sure we have a system, but also fulfill the promise to the seniors in america. a promise made will be a promise kept should i be fortunate enough to become your president. i want to have the military keeping the peace. i want to make sure the public school system in america keeps its promise so not one child is left behind. after setting priorities, i want to give some of your money back.
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i don't think the surplus is the government's money. i think it's the people's money. i don't think the surplus exists because of the ingenuity and ha work of the federal government, i think it exists because of the ingenuity and hard work of the american people. and you ought to have some of this surplus so you can save and dream and build. i look forward to the final weeks of this campaign. i'm asking for your vote. for those of you for me, thanks for your help. for those of you for my opponent, please only vote once. [laughter] but for those who have not made up their mind, i would like to conclude by this promise. should i be fortunate enough to become your president, when i put my hand on the bible, i will swear to not only uphold the laws of the land, but i will also swear to uphold the honor and the dignity of the office to which i have been elected, so help me god. thank you very much. >> a closing piece of business before we go. the debate commission wants reaction to the three kinds of formats used in the debates this year, and you may register an opinion at their website at www.debates.org.
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vice president gore, governor bush, thank you. and good night from washington university in st. louis. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]
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>> next, a debate from the 1992 campaign that was the first to use the town hall format. for candidates take questions directly promoters. george bush was running for
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reelection against democratic nominee and arkansas governor bill clinton. independent candidate ross perot had gathered enough public support that the debate commission and both candidates agreed to include him in that year's debates. this was the second of three debates held that year. it took place at the university of richmond in virginia. it is about an hour and a half. [applause] of richmond in virginia. it is about an hour and a half. [applause] >> how are ya?
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>> good evening and welcome to the second of three presidential debates between the major candidates for president of the united states. the candidates are the republican nominee, president george bush, the independent, ross perot, and governor bill clinton, the democratic nominee. my name is carole simpson and i will be the moderator for tonight's 90 minutes' debate coming to you from the campus of the university of richmond in virginia. >> tonight's program is unlike any other presidential debate in history -- we're making history now and it's pretty exciting. an independent polling firm has selected an audience of 209 uncommitted voters from this area. the candidates will be asked questions by these voters on a topic of their choosing -- anything they want to ask about. my job as moderator is t you know, take care of the
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questioning, ask questions myself if i think there needs to be continuity and balance, and sometimes i might ask the candidates to respond to what another candidate may have said. now the format has been agreed to by representatives of both the republican and democratic campaigns. and there is no subject matter that is restricted -- anything goes, we can ask anything. after the debate, the candidates will have an opportunity to make a closing statement. so, president bush, i think you said it earlier, let's get it on. >> let's go. >> and i think the first question is over here. >> yes, i'd like to direct my question to mr. perot. what will you do as president to open foreign markets to fair competition from american business, and to stop unfair competition here at home from foreign countries so that we can bring jobs back to the united states.
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>> that's right at the top of my agenda. we've shipped millions of jobs overseas and we have a strange situation because we have a process in washington where after you've served for a while you cash in and become a foreign lobbyist, make $30,000 a month; then take a leave, work on presidential campaigns, make sure you got good contacts, and then go back out. now if you just want to get down to brass tacks, the first thing you ought to do is get all these folks who've got these one-way trade agreements that we've negotiated over the years and say, "fellows, we'll take the same deal we gave you." and they'll gridlock right at that point because, for example, we've got international competitors who simply could not unload their cars off the ships if they had to comply -- you see, if it was a two-way street -- just couldn't do it. we have got to stop sending jobs overseas. to those of you in the audience who are business people, pretty simple: if you're paying $12, $13, $14 an hour for factory
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workers and you can move your factory south of the border, pay a dollar an hour for labor, hire young -- let's assume you've been in business for a long time and you've got a mature work force -- pay a dollar an hour for your labor, have no health care -- that's the most expensive single element in making a car -- have no environmental controls, no pollution controls and no retirement, and you don't care about anything but making money, there will be a giant sucking sound going south. so we -- if the people send me to washington the first thing i'll do is study that 2,000-page agreement and make sure it's a two-way street. one last part here -- i decided i was dumb and didn't understand it so i called the who's who of the folks who've been around it and i said, "why won't everybody go south? " they say, "it'd be disruptive." i said, "for how long? " i finally got them up from 12 to 15 years. and i said, "well, how does it stop being disruptive? " and that is when their jobs come up from a dollar an hour to six dollars an hour, and ours go down to six dollars an hour, and then it's leveled again.
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but in the meantime, you've wrecked the country with these kinds of deals. we've got to cut it out. >> thank you mr. perot. i see that the president has stood up so he must have something to say about this. bush: well, carole, the thing that saved us in this global economic slowdown is in our exports. and what i'm trying to do is increase our exports. and if, indeed, all the jobs were going to move south because of lower wages, there are lower wages now and they haven't done that. and so i have just negotiated with the president of mexico; the north american free trade agreement; and the prime minister of canada, i might add, and i'm -- i want to have more of these free trade agreements. because export jobs are increasing far faster than any jobs that may have moved overseas; that's a scare tactic because it's not that many. but anyone that's here, we want to have more jobs here and the way to do that is to increase our exports. some believe in protection. i don't. i believe in free and fair trade and that's the thing that saved
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us, and so i will keep on as president trying to get a successful conclusion to the gatt round, the big uruguay round of trade which will really open up markets for our -- for our agriculture particularly -- i want to continue work after we get this nafta agreement ratified this coming year; i want to get one with eastern europe. i want to get one with chile and free and fair trade is the answer, now protection. and as i say we've had tough economic times and it's exports that have saved us. exports that have built. >> governor clinton. >> i'd like to answer the question because i've actually been a governor for 12 years so. i've known a lot of people who've lost their jobs because of jobs moving overseas and i know a lot of people whose plants have been strengthened by increasing exports. the trick is to expand our export base and to expand trade on terms that are fair to us. it is true that our exports to
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mexico for example have gone up and our trade deficit's gone down. it's also true that just today a record-high trade deficit was announced with japan. so what is the answer? let me just mention three things very quickly. no. 1, make sure that other countries are as open to our markets as our markets are to them. and if they're not, have measures on the books that don't take forever and a day to implement. no. 2, change the tax code. there are more deductions in the tax code for shutting plants down and moving overseas than there are for modernizing plant and equipment here. our competitors don't do that. emphasize and subsidize modernizing plant and equipment here, not moving plants overseas. no. 3, stop the federal government's program that now gives low- interest loans and job training funds to companies that will actually shut down and move to other countries but we won't do the same thing for plants that stay here. so more trade, but on fairer terms and favor investment in america. >> thank you. i think we have a question over here. >> this is for governor clinton. in the real world, that is outside of washington, d.c., compensation and achievement are based on goals defined and
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achieved. the deficit is my -- my question is about the deficit. would you define in specific dollar goals how much you would reduce the deficit in each of the four years of a clinton administration and then enter into a legally binding contract with the american people that if you did not achieve those goals, that you would not seek a second term? answer yes or no and then comment on your answer, please. >> no, and here's why. and i'll tell you exactly why. because the deficit now has been building up for 12 years. i'll tell you exactly what i think can be done. i think we can bring it down by 50 percent in four years and grow the economy.
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now, i could get rid of it in four years in theory on the books now, but to do it, you'd have to raise taxes too much and cut benefits too much to people who need them. and it would even make the economy worse. mr. perot will tell you, for example, that the expert he hired to analyze his plan said that it will bring the deficit down in five years, but it will make unemployment bad for four more years.
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>> mr. president. >> i am confused. i do not see how you can grow the deficit down by raising people's taxes. i cannot think the american people are taxed too little. i think they're taxed too much. the governor in -- governor's program will tax more. i do not believe that is the way to do it. here are some things that will help. give us the balanced budget amendment. he always talks about arkansas having a balanced budget and they do. they have to do it. i will let the government have that. i would like to have what 43 governors have. the line item veto. let the president have a shot at it. by wiping out things that are pork-barrel are something of
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that nature. i propose another one. some sophisticates think it may be little gimmicky. i think it is good. it is a checkoff. you can check 10 percent of that in one box and that the present -- that 10 percent come, check it off. make the governor -- government and lower it by that amount. he would exempt social security i believe we need to control the growth of medicare spending. two-thirds of the budget i never get to look at as president.
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let's not raise taxes on the american people. >> how about you, mr. perot? >> an additional $1 billion for every working day of the year. i'm just a businessman tending to my family. this situation is not so bad. i decided i got to get into it. if we sit here tonight, we will go into debt an additional $50 million. it is not the republicans' fault. it is not the democrats' fault. but i am looking for is who did it. the facts are we have to fix it. i am here tonight for these young people up in the balcony from this college. when i was a young ron -- man, i
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had offers. young people cannot get a job. 24 high school graduates 10 years ago were making more than they are now. we were down to 18% of the making -- of them making less than $12,000. now that is up 40%. the dollar has gone to the floor. whose fault is that? some are out there there is an extra terrestrial doing this to us, i guess. everybody says they takes responsibility. somebody summer have to take responsibility. -- somewhere has to take responsibility. we will pay down our debt. and pass on the american dream to our children. i will not leave our children a situation they have today. when i -- today it will take 12 generations.
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this debt that somebody somewhere dropped on aspirin >> i know you have lots more to add but i talked to this audit and they have lots of questions. can we move to another topic? >> alawite to address all candidates. -- i would like to address of canada did with this question. why can't you discussions reflect the complexity and difficulty of the issues to try to build a consensus of around the best aspects of all proposals? >> who wants to take that one? [laughter] mr. perot, go right ahead. >> i have been buying 30 minute segments to talk about issues. tomorrow night on nbc by 10:30 to 11:00 eastern, but will talk about how you pay the debt down.
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we will be on again saturday night on abc. >> okay, oka

tv
1992 Bush Clinton Perot Town Hall
CSPAN October 14, 2012 3:05am-5:40am EDT

Series/Special. President George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton and Ross Perot in the first town hall-style presidential debate in Richmond, Va.

TOPIC FREQUENCY Washington 20, Bush 18, Gore 18, D.c. 8, Jim 7, Missouri 7, Mr. Perot 5, Texas 5, Norwood Bill 4, Clinton 4, Vietnam 4, Leo 4, Dingle 4, Virginia 3, Hollywood 3, St. Louis 3, Mel Carnahan 3, Richmond 3, George Bush 2, Ross Perot 2
Network CSPAN
Duration 02:35:09
Scanned in San Francisco, CA, USA
Source Comcast Cable
Tuner Channel 91 (627 MHz)
Video Codec mpeg2video
Audio Cocec ac3
Pixel width 704
Pixel height 480
Sponsor Internet Archive
Audio/Visual sound, color


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on 10/14/2012
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